amberwolf said:
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Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair said:
I don’t understand looking at that CA screen how to tune the controllers unfortunately....
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If you have only one CA, it only has one throttle output, so it can't tune two separate controller's throttle input voltages. That has to be done in the controllers themselves.
If both controllers don't have their own throttle input "tuning" settings in their setup programs (or if only one has a setup program), then you must first determine the throttle response range of the unchangeable controller. Then you need to setup the other controller's throttle input response range to match the unchangeable one. Then you setup the CA's throttle output to match that range.
If you have only one CA, it only has one throttle output, so it can't tune two separate controller's throttle input voltages. That has to be done in the controllers themselves.If both controllers don't have their own throttle input "tuning" settings in their setup programs (or if only one has a setup program), then you must first determine the throttle response range of the unchangeable controller. Then you need to setup the other controller's throttle input response range to match the unchangeable one. Then you setup the CA's throttle output to match that range.
Click to expand...
Amberwolf please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this...I've never built a dual motor setup.
The issue is the Phaserunner is a torque controller, and the Grinfeon is speed based. Control for the motors is provided by a nominal 0-5V signal, with a hall throttle (most all), it's really more like a 1.2-4.5V range. So the throttle generates a signal and passes it to the CA3. Inside the CA3, there are many parameters where this signal can be modified to make the bike operate more smoothly, enforce limitations (speed, battery current, motor temp) and finally to integrate PAS. For discussion, you use the bike throttle to command 10%. So that turns out to be a 1.9V signal. To the Grinfeon, this equates to 10% of max rotation speed. To the PHaserunner, this means 10% of max torque. On the stand, one motor spins at 10%, the other spins at 100%, since 10% of max torque is sufficient to reach max RPM without a load.
The first tuning step is to make both motors start at the same signal level. For now, assuming you were happy with the original programming I would not change the programming of the CA3, except maybe to turn off proportional Ebrake regen if it's ON. And finally, I probably would set the CA3 throttle to PassThru for now. This may likely get set back to current later.
Then find this CA3 display:
505B219E-55CC-4EA3-AA85-20E9BD7D0B83.jpeg
It shows the throttle input and output voltages from the CA3. Note the throttle output voltage where the Grinfeon controller starts to spin the wheel. Note the voltage where the Grinfeon motor reaches maximum speed.
Then using the PC program it's time to program iteration 1 of the Phaserunner configuration to match the Grinfeon. Make sure you've already learned the motor and set the basic parameters for your battery. Then find this screen:
06C75237-6FC8-4101-9B2B-81C5C88B8220.jpeg
Set the brake active range to be lower than the minimum output voltage of the CA3 with the throttle completely off. Set the throttle active range to the voltages noted for the Grinfeon. Most important, while on the stand, make sure the throttle position where the wheels begins to spin is matched exactly, or as close as you can get. Make sure at full throttle both wheels look like they are spinning at their top speed. This full speed is subjective. The wheels won't spin at the same speed. That's OK, but they ought to spin smoothly.
If the Phaserunner is now primary, check the speed readout on the CA3. It's possible that this may need recalibration, the number of magnets pulsing the hall sensor per full rotation is likely different for the GMAC (per Grin it's 6) than the Crystalite. This setting is in the CA3 configuration.
The remainder of the tuning will be based on test rides, and a subjective analysis of how well the motors match up in operation. Here are a few things you can "tune"
1) The upper end of the Phaserunner throttle active range. It could be increased to slow the ramp up of the Phaserunner, or lowered to increase the ramp up. Don't change the low end so both motors start at the same point.
2) Current limit in the Phaserunner battery configuration. And all of the motor limits.
3) Finally after the above are as good as possible, you can go tinker with CA3 settings. Try current throttle mode. Try slowing/speeding the ramp up and ramp down parameters.
Hope this helps! Good luck and let us know.
Amberwolf please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this...I've never built a dual motor setup.The issue is the Phaserunner is a torque controller, and the Grinfeon is speed based. Control for the motors is provided by a nominal 0-5V signal, with a hall throttle (most all), it's really more like a 1.2-4.5V range. So the throttle generates a signal and passes it to the CA3. Inside the CA3, there are many parameters where this signal can be modified to make the bike operate more smoothly, enforce limitations (speed, battery current, motor temp) and finally to integrate PAS. For discussion, you use the bike throttle to command 10%. So that turns out to be a 1.9V signal. To the Grinfeon, this equates to 10% of max rotation speed. To the PHaserunner, this means 10% of max torque. On the stand, one motor spins at 10%, the other spins at 100%, since 10% of max torque is sufficient to reach max RPM without a load.The first tuning step is to make both motors start at the same signal level. For now, assuming you were happy with the original programming I would not change the programming of the CA3, except maybe to turn off proportional Ebrake regen if it's ON. And finally, I probably would set the CA3 throttle to PassThru for now. This may likely get set back to current later.Then find this CA3 display:505B219E-55CC-4EA3-AA85-20E9BD7D0B83.jpegIt shows the throttle input and output voltages from the CA3. Note the throttle output voltage where the Grinfeon controller starts to spin the wheel. Note the voltage where the Grinfeon motor reaches maximum speed.Then using the PC program it's time to program iteration 1 of the Phaserunner configuration to match the Grinfeon. Make sure you've already learned the motor and set the basic parameters for your battery. Then find this screen:06C75237-6FC8-4101-9B2B-81C5C88B8220.jpegSet the brake active range to be lower than the minimum output voltage of the CA3 with the throttle completely off. Set the throttle active range to the voltages noted for the Grinfeon. Most important, while on the stand, make sure the throttle position where the wheels begins to spin is matched exactly, or as close as you can get. Make sure at full throttle both wheels look like they are spinning at their top speed. This full speed is subjective. The wheels won't spin at the same speed. That's OK, but they ought to spin smoothly.If the Phaserunner is now primary, check the speed readout on the CA3. It's possible that this may need recalibration, the number of magnets pulsing the hall sensor per full rotation is likely different for the GMAC (per Grin it's 6) than the Crystalite. This setting is in the CA3 configuration.The remainder of the tuning will be based on test rides, and a subjective analysis of how well the motors match up in operation. Here are a few things you can "tune"1) The upper end of the Phaserunner throttle active range. It could be increased to slow the ramp up of the Phaserunner, or lowered to increase the ramp up. Don't change the low end so both motors start at the same point.2) Current limit in the Phaserunner battery configuration. And all of the motor limits.3) Finally after the above are as good as possible, you can go tinker with CA3 settings. Try current throttle mode. Try slowing/speeding the ramp up and ramp down parameters.Hope this helps! Good luck and let us know.
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